Pramendra’s new book, ‘THE LOGIC OF SRIMAD BHAGWAD GITA’ (Interpreting Gita in a new light, with logic and science) talks about the connection between science and Gita. The Book has many talking points:
– On Prophet Got Revelation Through Yoga In Hera Caves.
– Castes Not By Lineage or Surnames But By Qualities And Karma
– Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva Represent Cosmological Hierarchy of Solar Systems, Galaxies, And Universe.
– Shivalinga, the cosmic Pillar is nothing but Big bang theory of creations, and Swastik represents the Process of Galactic and stellar creations
– True Faith Is Not the Religion, But Triguna Element In Nature, Which Makes People from different Religious Backgrounds think alike
– Five Factor Theory Of Actions Solve All Dilemmas, Helps Decision Making
– Commonality between Christianity, Islam and Sanatan Dharma
Exclusive interview of Pramendra Srivastava, author of ‘THE LOGIC OF SRIMAD BHAGWAD GITA’ in which he talks about:
Congrats for the book. What was the inspiration of the book?
(Laughs) It’s the journey of life question. In 1990, while reading a book by Swami Chinmayanand, logical sense in religion struck to me. Till then I used to be under depression for multiple reasons, but suddenly I realized new wave of energy in me. It got me interested into the things that I was supposed to do. I regained my lost confidence. In 1996, I was travelling out of country for the first time from Mumbai airport, and I bought first Gita of my life by Sri Aurobindo Ghosh. Since then I read many Gita, and eventually, I realized there is lot of logic and science in our scriptures, which is not taught to people by Babas and TRP loving media. Truths are camouflaged as myths and symbols, which needs to be deciphered logically. None of the books could explain it; while many of the notions contradicted, and questions remained unanswered. This quest inspired me to seek a logical understanding of Religion.
Bhagwad Gita recommends no desires, but most Hindu prayers and Temple visits are for Desires. Actions and Prurushartha is the recommendation, which in practice is replaced by Blind faith and fate. Svadharma is your inherent skills and talents, which needs to be fructified, whereas children are driven by the Glitter and glamour. Self-control and not policing others is required. What feels poison in the beginning (early initiatives) turns out to be Nectar later, and vice versa – are the messages. There are many such knowledge that needs to be told to children early in their life, so that they can benefit in life, else we end up doing so many mistakes in our life without realizing where our thought process went wrong. Hence, it got me into writing the book of life.
Secondly, while I used to see a lot of logic, science and sense in scriptures, I came across with people, even matured ones, who would call religions a Mumbo Jumbo, some questioned Kritsna’s decisions during Mahabharata, holding him responsible for the great war and massacre.
I just pitied on them that without having gone through any scriptures, or trying to understand it logically they disparaged it. Then I realized, everyone is not a self-learner and they need to be guided. Hence decided to write a book. Hindus must gather on weekly basis like Muslims and Christians and discuss logic of religion, to help make day-to-day decisions else they would remain blind followers benefiting nothing. While saying that I must also say that I love to use word Sanatan Dharmi’s and not Hindus, as Sanatan Dharma is all inclusive religion. Its about humanity and inhumanity. Islam and Christianity are the subset to it, in principles, if not by their Prophetic lineage. While Hinduism is a geo-political word coined by Arabs for the people living across Sindhu Range of mountains, and this includes Pakistani’s too, not only Indian Muslims and Christians.
Third, a lot of ignorance around makes people and our country suffer. Even Government decisions are sometime not as per Dharma. The reason, again, is due to ritualistic and not logical interpretations, of Sanatan Dharma. Failing a logical understanding of religions, children are getting disinterested, and grow up as callous citizens. Secularism is not the answer. Religions must be taught in school logically. We fail to realize that all laws are based on a set of belief system, correct or not, which we might call Secularism. All these forced me to write a book that describes how to think, and thank god, all these are mentioned in scriptures already, only it need to be interpreted properly.
What is the message of The Logic of Srimad Bhagwad Gita?
Srimad Bhagwad Gita can be divided into three major segments, Science of creations, psychology, and human behaviors. Spirituality or the metaphysics is discussed in chapter 2 to Chapter 13 and it is the mother of all Physics and Psychology. Book explains numerous parallels with Modern sciences, which are not mere coincidences, simultaneously.
In Srimad Bhagwad Gita, there are two specific mentions of acquiring knowledge, one is logical concluding called, sankhya, which is modern scientific ways and other is Dhyana-Yog or meditational realization, both of them lead to same conclusion. The later technique seems to have been lost and need scientific attention. Scientists who often disregard this theory, often fail to realize the limitation of Physical sciences, we cannot break particles to see what they are made of, as the next piece will pose the same question again. And Now the recent quantum Physics has started saying that mass belongs to force particles, like Higgs, while gluons explains the maximum weight of nucleons, because weights of subatomic particles are not in nano or pico grams but in GeV, which itself is a measure of energies, not mass. Dhyanyoga, seems to be real, which could be a heightened version of logical conclusions, which are so fast as if it appears to be direct realization or it is about rise of consciousness to a level, where transcendental vision becomes a reality by which unseen existences can be seen crystal clear. In ancient times, the modern instruments like Hubble telescopes were not available and it was impossible to see deep dark skies, then how could Rishis explain cosmology with great precisions, (such as creations spread from unmanifest smallest of the smallest atom , and has inconceivable hordes of suns in multi colour, then describing Vishnu as living in ocean of milk, which now we call Milky way, and that a demon andhak (the blind and dark blackhole) swallowed Vishnu, who was later Rescued by Shiva. What does all these mythologies indicate? A lot more in book has been described. Note that 6000 years ago, Rishis acquired this intricate method of seeking knowledge, and called it Dhyanyog. Kapil Muni is quoted by Lord Krishna as Best among Siddha (perfected Yogi). The principles he mentioned in his “Sankhya-Karika” are the main pillars of discussions in Srimad Bhagwad Gita. All this knowledge has been coded into symbols and hymns for ordinary people to understand and take it further, to preserve the knowledge through calamities, only to be deciphered later, and now the time has come to read it with scientific and logical eye. An attempt is made in the book to decode symbols and associated mentions in various scriptures, logically and Holistic connecting to other precepts of humanity and eternity. A lot more can still be done.
What’s your interpretation of THE LOGIC OF SRIMAD BHAGWAD GITA and how it is different from traditional thought?
As far as translations are concerned, word meaning are 99% similar, although 1% of the time different translation is taken as the traditional translation does not sync with preceding shloke, the contexts or other holistic concepts of Brahm, Prakriti, Purusha, etc. For the same reasons, interpretations are about 5% different, where scientific parallels and logic has been discussed connecting to reality and humanity in better sync. For example, the book has strongly condemned the lineage based Castes. Bhagwan very clearly states “Chaturvarnyam Maya Sri Shtam Guna karma Vibhagasah (4.13, 18.41 to 18.45)” means for personalities in human beings are segmented by their innate qualities, and karmas, but we made it linage based due to ignorance. Conventional interpretation contradicts with the egalitarian concept quoted by Lord Kritsna several times in SBG.
For thousands of years, Krishna has been Krishna but you are calling Krishna as Kritsna? Why?
If you note the names given in those times, they were all functional names based on their achievements, or attributes, like Madhusudan, Makhanchor, Nand Gopal, Yashoda Nanadan, Hrishikesh, Janardan, Keshav, and Shyam etc. and never ever two functional names assigned for the same attribute, as done for His skin color – Shyam and Krishna. In fact they mean differently, Shyam is Cyn and Krishna is black, people in those time would not use these words alternatively. Secondly, in Bhagwad Gita,Lord Kritsna gives the entire sermon in a deep yogic states, assuming a form of Brahm himself, and thereby using first person language. He also gives yogic vision to Arjuna and demonstrates the entire cosmos inside Him. Prior to this he had done this to His mother and father as well. In several shloke he directly pin points to His own Body saying Ihakastham jagad Kritsna (11.3, 11.7) and aham Kritsnasya jagad…(7.6) etc . He further says everything is inside Him. So, there are very clear evidence of his being holistic cosmos with its physical and metaphysical attributes. These mentions are very important events, but surprisingly, no names have been assigned to Him for this attribute. Hence his name was Kritsna the Wholesome, and not Krishna the Black. It seems that this has been an inadvertent result of thousands of years malapropism and semantic corruption.
How is Krishna (Kritsna) relevant today?
Lord Kritsna was one of the most perfect thinker and decision maker of his time. His finesse, impromptu styles, and witty decision are often mistaken by people and TV serials as tricks, ploys, and cheating, which he never did. He Was NOT Chhaliya, and I object to This name. On the contrary, he was completely ethical. If you notice, after defeating or killing cruel Kings, he gave back their kingdoms to their worthy sons, and did not try to acquire their possession , share with relatives or marry their women. He was super human in more than one skill, like today’s prodigies, but he never used his skills to his personal advantage. He used his skills to save people from atrocities, and to save humanity by setting up an ethical standard and behavioral system for people to follow. In one place he states, that those who eulogize Vedas like flowery speech, do not know that the conceptual knowledge of Brahm-Gyan is far superior. Had it been understood properly, we would have invented twice more herbs after Ayurveda was propounded by Rishis. Had it been understood properly, we would have re-invented or maintained true procedures of Yoga, that could enable transcendence and discovered more about nature. I read Vigyan Bhairav Tantra and Patanjali’s Ashtang Yoga procedure, but it seems that there are some very specific omissions probably made deliberately to avoid misuse of these knowledge.
We need to develop knowledge. Today, What is needed is to worship Gods in actions, like the best way to Worship Devi Laxmi and Saraswati, is to invest in Research and develop Technologies, not just keep their photos in Prayer rooms. To worship Lord Ganesh is about making an impeccable Plan, and break down the Projects into smaller achievable targets. Yagya is not just sacrificial altar, but main Yagya starts thereafter. Had we understood Kritsna’s message, we would have been developing and exporting technologies, instead of importing them at ten times the cost of development itself. And our Universities would have been on top in world lists. Unfortunately, our Industries are not welcoming new technologies, while in west, they find ways into Projects. Our Indian goods are not accepted in Industries in foreign lands, while we proudly import technologies from abroad. There are shrewd politics behind all of this, which we are unable to understand. Many such discussion can be found in the book on logical ground with due references from scripture itself. We need a lot of Kritsna today.
Your book states that Sanatan Dharma is mother of all religions. What is the concept of trinity in Christianity?
Sanatan Dharma is Oldest. It recommended an organized planning of everyone’s life, in four quarters, first to educated self, second to raise families, third to serve community, while fourth was to serve humanity by going to far off places, as Hermits (Sanyasi). Concept of Trinity in Christianity states that The God, the father and the Holy spirit are the same. This is quite akin to concept of Brahman, and the individual soul, and the Para-Brahmm. Para-Brahmm (The god) created the metaphysical world (the holy spirit) and the individual souls (the son) from its own parts and hence they are the same. There is very high possibility that in ancient days, Sanyasi’s went to far off places to spread knowledge , and there messages were absorbed by contemporary thinkers and philosophers as religion. God Christos existed in Pre-Christian era, and was Black and anointed God, like Lord Kritsna, though not much literature is available about him, but seems Christ word was accoladed to Jesus posthumously, to honor Him like Christos.
You say Prophet (PBUH) Mohd was meditating in the Hera caves when knowledge revealed to him? But it is not said by Muslim scholars. How do you explain that?
Before I answer this question, I must clarify that whatever I have done is a pure academic research and have no intention to hurt any feelings or politicize the knowledge. On the contrary, I wish to develop a harmony between all religions, and trying to discover common grounds.
It is well known fact that Prophet (PBUH) of Mecca used to go to Hera Caves to seek isolation, and obviously people seek isolation to concentrate, not to sleep, for which he had much better facility at home. He was married to richest women in Mecca for 27 years as monogamist. It is also stated that while he was in caves, Ruh Gabriel squeezed him so much that he almost choked, and then suddenly he realized Quran. These versions of stories have flown down through tribal cult, and war ridden days of Mecca and Medina, where truths have been folded to suit a specific mission. True research wouldn’t have been possible in those days of terror when the sword of blasphemy would be an easy gift. Today we are more intellectual society, so, we need to analyze facts logically, and try to envision what might have happened. First of all, we all know that such angels do not come to life and hold people physically, and it remains a mystery. Secondly try and see on what condition one would feel choked for breath. Conditional analysis points to the fact that he might have met a Sanyasi or Guru, whom he preferred to call Gabriel, and he taught him Kumbhak, Purak, Rechak Kriya, which is slow breathing, holding and slow exhaling. Through this Ashtang-Yog technique he achieved the yogic states and realize Knowledge. His sermons are very close to mentions in Bhagwad Gita. Prophet (PBUH) of Mecca was a Spiritual being and he demonstrated a very high level of consciousness in Mecca, although it does not explain his actions in Madina, which is a mystery and a challenge to psychologists.
What are the similarities of Indian Gods with those in Greek?
There were many pre-christian Gods like Christos, the black anointed God, who’s similarity to Lrod Kritsna can be established. Other similar Greek Gods that match to Indian Gods are : Greek gods Zeus (like Indra), Apollo (like Suryadev), Aries (like Karthikeya), Artemis (like Chandradev), Noasilike Manu, and multi skilled Goddess Athena who is akin to Devi Durga and few more.
The theory of big bang, does in resonate in TLSBG?
This is true, a good section has been dedicated in book to explain how the Avyakt (unmanifest) created Vyakt (manifest). And its vividly described as from smallest of the smallest atom, the creations expanded, many different colors of hordes of suns, Adityan were created. Among the best Adityan is Vishnu, who lives in ocean of milk (ksheersagar), which we call Milky way, so there is clear indication of creation of atoms to stars and the milky way, and from Vishnu’s naval appeared Lord Brahma, whose fifth head was chopped out by lord Shiva who represent Brahm, the universe. Other scriptures like shiv Puran and Linga Puran append to Gita’s mention, saying that Shivaling was the Cosmic pillar of creation where in shape of Shivalinga exactly matches to Big bang theory of creations and its time line and shape of expansion in Bell shape.
Further research paper has been quoted where our solar system used to have five big planets which were destabilizing the solar system and due to universal forces the fifth big planet was thrown out of the solar system, there after it stabilized. The same is quoted in scriptures as Srishti was stabilized after lord Shiva chopped off the fifth head of lord Brahma, who was born of Vishnu’s naval. With several other mentions in scriptures, a vivid cosmological hierarchy can be concluded that Lord Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma actually represents the Universe, Galaxies, and solar systems, respectively, where in Lord Brahma is venerated by all the terrestrial Gods, Jal Devata, Vayu Devata, Indra Devata, Chandra Devata and other planets and Sun etc. More details are mentioned in the book, where we further conclude that Shivaling, the cosmic pillar was same as theory of Big bang creation, and denotes shape of universe, while Swastika is the formation process of stars and galaxy. After TOV limits, the degeneration starts and reverse swastika is created, which is considered as sign of destruction.
What Do you think of the Supreme Court order on Ram Mandir in Ayodhya?
A Muslim is known for Iman. Prophet Mohammad’s (PBUH) was known for his honesty, as people used to trust him keep his things with him like a bank. He went against His own Amir in Mecca, in order to give justice to a foreigner whose property was cleverly acquired by the Amir. He allowed His slave to go back with the Parents, but when he Refused out of His love for Prophet, Prophet adopted Him as son. If I use Bhagwad Gita terminology for Him, he was a Moha-Aham-Mukt Prophet (PBUH), free from any ownership and attachment – the very message of Srimad Bhagwad Gita. Being richest man of Mecca, he left all his property to build Islam as a religion of knowledge-above-idols and Truthfulness, and he was not ‘Egoistic, at all, while facing Scathing remarks from Meccan Amirs. Such person would never make claims on other’s Property which has wide mentions in scriptures and in dozens of the country. So for Muslims if they follow Prophet (PBUH) of Mecca, they will never even make a claim on Ayodhya.
But it seems that original Islam was later hijacked for political reasons, and hence such issues against Non-Muslims, and Sectarian statehood policies of Islam keeps coming up world over. Islam, like Hinduism conceals major Mystery, and needs a daunting research in an organized manner without hurting feelings of anyone. I think religious research should be independently carried out under auspices of United Nations, as it is still the most important factor affecting people’s life, and politics, and cannot be undermined.
What Do you think of Pakistan’s approach on Kashmir?
Pakistan as a country is different from Pakistanis. First, I’ll tell you how I see Pakistani Muslims. I regard Pakistan a lot, because this is the land of Saraswati and Harappa, where our ancestors developed a beautiful civilization and Vedas, (Rigveda mentions River Saraswati over 40 times). This was ancient History, but in medieval History of 8th to 12th century, our ancestors Pal kings, fought for 400 years to save Eastern India from Turk and Moughal barbarians, but finally they lost, and were forced to convert. If we were in those geopolitical areas, today we would have been Pakistani Muslims. We were just lucky enough to be in Eastern part of the country. So we owe to Ancestors of Pakistanis, once again. When it comes to modern times, I have seen that Pakistani culture is exactly same as ours, there value systems are same as ours, they have not changed much – human tastes and family value systems for thousands of years, except the Sharia, language and foods, which I think are superficial policing but not a change in innate virtues. We still enjoy a lot of thing in common. The fight goes on at a political level, and due to their provocation strategy on Kashmir, which finds its egoistic roots in Caliphatic Islam of Medina and not the Prophet Mohammad’s (PBUH)Islam of Mecca. One may argue that Prophet (PBUH)’s role in Medina was also questionable, but then there are lot of other questions which need to be unearthed. My message to both communities would be to stay academically honest, as else we victimize ourselves, but leave that as part of History and lesson learnt, do not make it a reason for acrimony. I see Pakistani Muslims as a greater victim of the trap they got into accidently, thousands of years ago, wherein they are forced to venerate those who killed their own ancestors, raped their own mothers, and pillaged their lands. Their true History associated to Nalanda University and connection to Rigveda, and Saraswathi River, is not taught to them. Instead they are forced to make Missiles in the name of their own Invaders, and they are bound to do so under religious diktat. There cannot be a greater misfortune for any ancestry. Having said that the whole situation of the way Pakistan Acts, Terrorists behave, and Muslim Fundamentalist Behave requires a complete Re-invention of Prophet of Mecca’s original Islam. In my opinion his biography in Mecca, is lot more important than even Quran. Yet all these are not to spread acrimony, but to learn lesson from bitter History. At the end, humanity is religion one. Even our website suggests the same. Rest all virtues based on individualized religions, and patriotism are inferior to Humanity.
So be Human, and be Honest to save humanity for future. Religious Ego – turned Political Ego should not be exercised. Its all superficial and just a matter of time.500 years later our great grand kids would call us fools and under-intellectuals, if we continue to do so. True nature like Triguna satwa, rajas and Tamas) applies to even animals, what to say of humans. The facts and knowledge that is going to last for next millennium is not Religion, but human values, in whatever forms and names. And if we are unable to practice common human value systems, then Humanity will be destroyed. This is why I analyzed My-born-in Religion logically to seek Humanity which it is. No matter in whatever name these value of humanities are served, this is required. Names are not important. Remember we have not made God, God has made us and we have no right to divide or defend our Gods. He defends us. All Gods are common, we know Him by different names, just as we have different names for Water, air, foods etc.